Table and MAF questions

FreshDA9 · Post by **FreshDA9** » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:34 pm

Hi as i stated in my newb post im trying to learn more about motronic tuning with Tuner Pro. there are some things that are confusing to me that i would like to have straightened out.

the equipment
-Tuner Pro RT V.5 up to date
-Moates Ostrich 2.0
-Moates Flash and Burn
-PLX M300TE wideband with Serial

Im mainly a speed density tuner as i do mainly Hondas. so maf tuning is a little more for me. my buddy who lets me use his dyno mainly does GM (HPTuners) and Ford (SCT) so i have seen multiple Maf tables and understand some. but i do not understand the BMW Maf tables as far as axis.
here is a screen shot of a nissan VQ table i have in tuner pro.

I can understand its volts /Grams per second(or equivalent to grams per second). this is how i have seen many maf tables in his ford and gm programs.

Now i load up any of the BMW files i have and the maf table is abnormal to me.
here is a red label bin and xdf for example

Is the Null side supposedly a voltage reference? and is 1-15 load saying 10 is 100% kpa and above is boost reference?

Also i wanted to ask about the fueling table. i see there is retard and advanced is this referenced to a knock retard? so if there is knock it reverts you into the retard maps?
Also how does the advanced map and the A/F map work like this one below

Both are WOT Advance tables but 1 is raw fuel data and the other is in A/F can i just command the A/F table or do i change the raw map and it changes the A/F table accordingly?????

And 1 last thing how well does the serial wideband work and does it overlay in the cells or is it just a log file? i havent hooked up this software to any car yet and tried. i would like to feel more confident with this before finding a guinea pig.

revlimit · Post by **revlimit** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:22 am

I made that XDF. Mass air flow table lacks scale labeling because I simply don't know what it is, but the higher the number the greater the air flow. You can't compare Honda to BMW, Hondas have MAP sensor so the table would be linear or totaly different. BMW have air mass meter, hot wire, it measures mass instead of pressure. Raw data should be always tuned, the AFR is just translation of the same raw data map.

I am alone in making these file, no one helped me, so if you would like to experiment and contribute go do it.

FreshDA9 · Post by **FreshDA9** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:20 pm

Revlimit thank you for your fast response and your work creating these files. i do want to say i appreciate people like you who help in automotive community's.
Now i don't mean for you to read this the wrong way but yes i understand map (speed Density) in a Honda vs a Mass Air system. but as you said

Mass air flow table lacks scale labeling because I simply don't know what it is

I can see why it is different then the Nissan Maf table that i am use to seeing with the SCT and HP Tuners stuff. Also saying that the number in the Maf table is a just a raw fuel number, correct?
Also with the Ostrich logging and overlay will it trace in the maf tables per cell?

Now on the tables

Raw data should be always tuned, the AFR is just translation of the same raw data map.

so when i make a change in raw wot fuel table will it change the A/F table to show the correction made?
So if RPM 6400 is 14.82 and i do the math 14.82/13.0= 1.14 (+14%) take the raw data 127 at 6400 and multiply by 1.14 = 144.78 round to 145. At 6400rpm raw data at 145 in the table should = 13.0 A/F correct?

I would love to contribute but im not great at Hex editing never done but would like to get started and help. im all for helping i just need to learn how to start my way into hex and understanding. i have skimmed over a tutorial in the info of this site but haven't had time to read it all. any pointers or links would be appreciated.

FreshDA9 · Post by **FreshDA9** » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:29 pm

Now on the tables
Quote:
Raw data should be always tuned, the AFR is just translation of the same raw data map.

so when i make a change in raw wot fuel table will it change the A/F table to show the correction made?
So if RPM 6400 is 14.82 and i do the math 14.82/13.0= 1.14 (+14%) take the raw data 127 at 6400 and multiply by 1.14 = 144.78 round to 145. At 6400rpm raw data at 145 in the table should = 13.0 A/F correct?

Never mind about this i opened tuner pro and changed the value by doing the equation and noticed when you save the changes the A/F Table will change to the corresponding raw table

revlimit · Post by **revlimit** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:14 pm

FreshDA9 wrote:
Now on the tables
Quote:
Never mind about this i opened tuner pro and changed the value by doing the equation and noticed when you save the changes the A/F Table will change to the corresponding raw table

Yes man do some hard work, do some detective work, don't be here like a little girl, gime this give me that,

FreshDA9 · Post by **FreshDA9** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:49 pm

im trying to find another bmw to play with not having much luck. could you point me in a direction of some understanding hex editing links? maybe after some time i can play start some xdf's or add features to others.

turbotime · Post by **turbotime** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:11 pm

I'd love to see if I can help improve on the files. Are there any specific issues that need to be worked out? Also, is the version
M50tu/B25
BMW413.xdf
6/19/09
1992-1995 M50tu/B25 Red Sticker with 623 chip (413 dme) (Bins)
the most current version? If not could you send the updated or upload it?

Relic · Post by **Relic** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:10 am

Maf tables are normally 2d... voltage = MAF
As this is a 3d table....and If it defo is MAF then it must be a correction table.
So its probably something like
IAT vs Volts = MAF as the airtemp sensor is often part of a MAF sensor for MAF correction.

IMHO

Is it a 4 pin MAF sensor ?

evilm3666 · Post by **evilm3666** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:58 am

the maf is in KG/hr and voltage and it just needs to be rescaled to a signal curve to view it correctly. The updated xdf has it rescaled and converted to kg/hr, but the voltage break points are not done.

Borbetier · Post by **Borbetier** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:52 am

Well,
whenn applying MAF conversions and adjust values correctamente, you should first go and search the output-parameters for old and new sensor. Example for a new bosch-maf:

http://rb-aa.bosch.com/boaasocs/index.j ... rod_id=340

See the curves?

compare them to the old one´s and adjust every value to this. Usually it is only necessary to adjust certain steps (points on the curve) to get a more or less equal curve!

Mykk · Post by **Mykk** » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:58 am

I just wanted to revive this one from the dead. I've been blindly experimenting with my tuner pro XDF's, as I'm still learning. I've spent a couple days focusing on the MAF table.

I've used the available xdf for the 404 (I'm assuming it's RevLimit's), while watching the cell hit tracing with my vehicle running and the tune loaded on my Ostrich. The MAF table didn't appear to be "load" axis sensitive. As an experiment I changed the MAF table over to a 2d looking graph by using only 1 column and 256 rows. That gave me a much more recognizable MAF curve:

...just an idea, an uneducated idea.