Quick question about external inputs and aldl data logging.

[chadtn]

I assumed this would be simple information to find, but I haven't really had much luck finding a definitive answer in my searches. I currently have a PCM from a 95 lt1 F-body that I have been flashing via a home made aldl cable. When logging my Ford vehicles, my tuning software allows me to use a DataQ voltage acquisition box to provide an external input to my data logs for my wide band sensor.

Has anyone successfully done this with the Tuner Pro RT software? From my searches it looks like it would require someone to write an external plug in to acquire and integrate both streams of data. Most of the stuff I found was from a year or more in the past. Just wondering if one of you guys could help point this noob in the right direction. heh..

Thanks!

Chad

[EagleMark]

This will help you get going:
http://tunerpro.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2924

Moates had some A/D ports to wire into your cable.

[chadtn]

This will help you get going:
http://tunerpro.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2924

Moates had some A/D ports to wire into your cable.

I read over that article in my previous searches, but it looked to me like it required some kind of Moates hardware that was emulating an eprom. That setup was incorporating external channels in to a single ALDL data stream.

I'm trying to find a way for Tunerpro to log the car from an ALDL source and add in the data from a second source that is already being delivered to the laptop. I've used Binary Editor and Calcon in the past on my Ford vehicles and both support extra information from a DataQ box that I already own. I'm hoping that there is a way to use it with Tunerpro too. I have no idea how hard it would be to implement. I downloaded the DataQ SDK and peeked inside for info, but it was just the stuff someone would need to code it in to their own application. Way over my head. heh..

If all else fails I can probably wire my wideband into something I can log that is not being used. Maybe the EGR or AC. Just hoping for an easy fix with the stuff I already have available.

Thanks!

Chad

[Mangus]

You're right that doing this would, at the moment, require a plug-in to pull in the data from both sources, combine them, and return them to TunerPro.

I'm willing to implement multi-port data acquisition in TunerPro if you (or Mark) can come up with a good UI design that makes it not-so-confusing to the end-user to tie a particular input to a particular COM port, as defined in the definition. Keep in mind that virtual COM ports (such as those used for USB devices) will be different for different users, and can even be different for the same user if the user plugs the devices into different ports each time.

The scenario:

1) Definition author creates ADX that pulls data in from two sources. For instance, source 1 is ALDL, source 2 is A/D Box
2) End-user plugs in his devices, and in TunerPro settings, assigns COM ports to data sources. What should this UI look like?
3) End-user loads ADX that pulls from multiple sources. End-user must tie the data source defined in TunerPro settings to the data source defined in the ADX. What should this UI look like?

I'm open to ideas.

-Mark

[EagleMark]

There seems to be a growing intrest in getting data from external sources (WideBand) like the AD inputs in the AutoProm. Most have been found with non used ECM pins for EGR or one we just did for the LT1 $EE using AC pressure sensor.

An ALDL cable with AD inputs would be a great device accomplishing the same results as the AutoProm without the need for another device, USB port and interfacing the 2.

If the idea continues I would be glad to help, but would not know where to begin creating what the UI needs to look like. A better idea is to maybe give feedback on what your create?

Keep in mind that virtual COM ports (such as those used for USB devices) will be different for different users, and can even be different for the same user if the user plugs the devices into different ports each time.

That really explains a lot of the issues with cables/devices and connection issues for new TunerPro users.

With my AutoProm set to find on startup I know real quick if I'm plugged into correct USB port. For some reason it will be 2 of the three USB ports on my laptop.

Somehow fixing this issue would be the best thing TunerPro could do, more importantly for new users. I don't have this issue with my printer, USB mouse, TunerCat OBDII, EFI Live or Innovate LC-1 WB?

HTH!

[robertisaar]

An ALDL cable with AD inputs would be a great device accomplishing the same results as the AutoProm without the need for another device, USB port and interfacing the 2.

as interesting as this would be, i'm fairly certain it would require a MCU to accomplish.

essentially, a program would need to be built up that would take the values transmitted by tunerpro to request a packet, rebroadcast them to the module that is getting communicated with, receive the response and transmit it back to tunerpro, then tack on some A/D data after the checksum is done being transmitted to tunerpro.



of course, much easier said than done, especially with the oddball 8192 baud rate.

[Mangus]

With my AutoProm set to find on startup I know real quick if I'm plugged into correct USB port. For some reason it will be 2 of the three USB ports on my laptop.

Somehow fixing this issue would be the best thing TunerPro could do, more importantly for new users. I don't have this issue with my printer, USB mouse, TunerCat OBDII, EFI Live or Innovate LC-1 WB?

HTH!

Fixing what issue? The difference between an ALDL cable and all of the devices you mention above, including your AutoProm, is that the ALDL cable is a passthrough device; it doesn't have any defined communication scheme, so there's no way for software to truly detect the device. The "test" button in TunerPro simply sends data out and looks for the echo - a property that exists only because the tx and rx lines are tied together for GM ALDL interfaces. This isn't reliable. Plugging the cable into a vehicle with the key on can cause errant data to be present before the echo.

The other devices that you mention have specific commands that can be sent to identify the device. This is how TunerPro detects the AutoProm, Flash & Burn, Romulator, etc.

...Unless I misunderstand the issue that you're suggesting I fix.

[EagleMark]

I think that explains why it hasn't been fixed.

As Robert mentioned needing a MCU for my idea of adding AD inputs to cable also explains why all my other devices don't have this issue common with cables.

[chadtn]

It would probably be best to leave the primary settings alone and just add a Secondary Data tab. I have no idea if it's possible or how hard it would be to implement, but the best idea I can come up with to help with the shifting com ports problem would be to add a window showing current hardware settings. Something like this:



You could find your hardware's current com settings from the hardware pane on the right without having to leave TunerPro.

Chad

[Six_Shooter]

The part I don't understand is that there are extra A/D inputswhen using an AutoProm, so why can't the same thing be done with a stand alone ALDL cable?

[robertisaar]

the AutoPROM has a MCU built into it. IIRC, it's an Atmel unit.

anyways, that does all of the data shuffling the i described earlier. the only difference is that the autoprom has autoprom mode and passthough mode.

[chadtn]

The part I don't understand is that there are extra A/D inputswhen using an AutoProm, so why can't the same thing be done with a stand alone ALDL cable?

I'm in above my head here, but I think what they have been discussing is that the ALDL data stream your vehicle can understand does not support extra information being transmitted simultaneously. For that to work you need additional hardware to intercept, integrate, and re-transmit the data back to the proper software on your laptop.

Back in the old days all of your hardware had jumpers that had to be manually switched into different configurations for each new piece of hardware to function without conflicting. Now that's all handled automatically with software that does the work for you. Most of us are probably using serial to USB adapter cables since most modern laptops have completely done away with serial ports. This creates a problem because the cable is emulating a serial port and the virtual com ports it creates can be shifted around by software depending on the hardware configuration. Just using a different USB port with the same hardware can some times cause conflicts and makes setup/operation difficult for novice users. It isn't a fault or limitation of TunerPro that it can't auto-detect everything. The hardware most of us are using was never designed to handle those features we take for granted today. When it first came out everyone called it Plug & Pray instead of Plug & Play. heh..

DataQ has a box that will log four separate channels for $29 that is USB. I recently came across a USB ALDL cable online for $55 shipped from a company called Red Devil River. Anyone have some experience with them or know if they are a true USB configuration?

Chad

[robertisaar]

heard of red devil river, can't find information on this "DataQ" though.

EDIT: i had assumed you mean "red devil river DataQ"...

did a google search for DataQ, came up with this:

http://www.dataq.com/data-acquisition-s ... r-kits.htm

not sure what exactly could be done with it in terms of using with ALDL though.

[chadtn]

heard of red devil river, can't find information on this "DataQ" though.

EDIT: i had assumed you mean "red devil river DataQ"...

did a google search for DataQ, came up with this:

http://www.dataq.com/data-acquisition-s ... r-kits.htm

not sure what exactly could be done with it in terms of using with ALDL though.

I went back and edited my post to make more sense. It was definitely confusing the way I originally typed it. heh..

The $29 DataQ box will log four separate channels from any DC signal up to 10 volts. This works out great since most vehicle sensors are 0-1V or 0-5V. Just as an example you might wire up widebands for each bank of the engine, an electronic fuel sender, and a GM 3-bar MAP sensor to the DataQ. With TunerPro software support in conjunction with the already functioning ALDL features you can now have real time data logging of fuel pressure, boost/vacuum, and your air/fuel ratio on each bank of the engine. Pretty much anything that outputs a DC voltage can be logged, sorted, compared, or viewed in real time.

It's fun trying to think up tons of crazy things to measure. lol Transmission fluid temps...speed sensors on motor swap cars that were mechanical from the factory...Nitrous kits...A simple hi/lo voltage signal would actually allow you to look back over your datalogs to see the exact points that the nitrous was on or off. With the $50 eight channel DataQ box you could log EGT and tune each individual cylinder. Here's a good one...install accelerometers on the control arms. Now you can log what your suspension is doing when you launch at the drag strip or how many G's you are pulling on the skid pad. heh..

Chad

[chadtn]

Just wanted to bump this back up to the top.

Anyone know if the external input idea is something that might eventually be implemented?

Thanks!

Chad

[DSmith1989]

I downloaded the LC1.ADX file with high hopes but have yet to figure out how to make it work. I'm gonna keep messing with it, I feel like if that file was put in the download section it must have worked for someone.

[chadtn]

Any chance of this feature being implemented? The thread kind of died. heh..

Thanks!

Chad

[RYKE]

Yes, it would be nice to log via DataQ, I have the Quarterhorse and I don't want to spend a lot more money to do this, but I'll buy the DataQ because it's cheap.

I have my AFR hooked up to my EGR, I just wanted to add one more input to log my boost, I already have the gauge and sending unit.

[Mangus]

Logging from multiple COM ports is high on the list of large features to implement. However, I cannot offer a timeframe for the feature. Hobby time, for me, will be scarce over the next few months.