M50 402 "table of tables"

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mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

Someone familiar with m50 402 motronic 3.1 ecu, can please help me to find the table who have the adresses for all the other tables i mean something like "the table of tables"
the ecu use this table to "know" the adresses of the other tables
thank you very much
olafu
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

-599.bin: First table address founds from 0x7A5E "44F0" -> 0xF044 -> it has 8000h offset: First table founds from 0x7044.
mahdi93
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Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

you mean the table who have the adresses for other table start from 7A5E ? and finnish in 7B33 ???
olafu
Posts: 186
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

Yes, but last table address is in 0x7B2A. (so last table starts from 0x7A52, it's just before this map lookup table)
mahdi93
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Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

if i undertand you well this should be "the table of tables" ???
table of tables.jpg
table of tables.jpg (151.26 KiB) Viewed 14793 times
olafu
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

Yes, it is "the table of tables". F044, F064, F06C and so on are map addresses, but you must subtract them by 8000h, so you will find the maps from 7044, 7064, 706C and so on.
mahdi93
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Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

i'm searching for it so i can use it after i extened some table
for exemple i wanna extend the WOT fueling table to 7000rpm and make new adress for it , and i MUST change the adress also in the " table of tables" so it can work , if you understand what i wanna do
olafu
Posts: 186
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

I think you can also move this map lookup table to make more space to increase size of existing tables.. 0x7DFC-7DFFF (FA 5C FB 34). FA5C tells to ecu where is start of the table (there is two bytes "self reference" at start of this table) and FB34 is first "blank" byte after checksum. Also you have to correct the checksum calculation "Data End" address and particularly "Store Address" from your XDF. Otherwise tunerpro will overwrite something if checksum correction is on. Propably some part of map lookup table, depending how much space you did by moving things...

You can make a "New table" in your XDF from this map lookup table, and change several addresses at one time. With conversion x-32768 you get corrected values. The original maps are in rising order (so table editing is pretty easy), but in some other motronics (e.g. Opel 20XE) there have also been lookup tables, which uses the same map in several places.

If you want to increase size of several maps and you don't move whole map system, the space runs out from chip, because you always have to recreate the whole map. Free space is enough for approximately two bigger 3d maps or several 2d maps. Unused space of old maps can be more difficult to reuse than moving whole system.
mahdi93
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

yes yes i will relocate the new extended map in an empty space "FF FF ....." , then change to the new adress in the " table of tables" so it can wrok
in the 403 ecu the table of tables in hex its 200 bytes and in 402 599 bin its 206 is that normal ? did i "select" the correct map in the previous photo posted ? .... sorry for the toooo many question but im not pro im still learning and thank you bro for your help

i wanna do same think like in this topic
http://forum.tunerpro.net/viewtopic.php ... 048#p18048
mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

this is the first step as i understand make the " table of table" in a list like this
Step 1.jpg
Step 1.jpg (107.98 KiB) Viewed 14778 times
then i have the WOT fueling map start at 0x7234 = "8B 8A" , but i cant find it in this list ( i searched for 7234 , 8B8A, 3472, 34F2 ) or what should i found ?
olafu
Posts: 186
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

Yes, seems right. With conversion "x-32768" those table addresses are correct...

Maps also include more than just adjustments. This map starts from 7222, but in XDF you put start address 7234.
CF 10 05 08 0A 0C 08 0B 0A 0A 09 0A 0C 0A 09 06 0A 60 8B 8A 8A 8F 8C 8C 8C 8D 8E 8E 8F 8D 8E 8C 8D 8C
In this case:
CF = register address where the variable (what controls that map) can be found.
10 = map size (10h = 16 in decimal)
Next 16 bytes are map's axis scaling
Next more 16 bytes are the actual "map". This part starts from 7234.

In my opinion, the WOT fuel map with 16 control points has enough resolution. If you want more RPM, you can rescale the RPM axis. No need for more control points -> no need for extra space -> no need for modify the map lookup table.
in the 403 ecu the table of tables in hex its 200 bytes and in 402 599 bin its 206 is that normal ?
So we can conclude that the 402 and 403 are with a different program. 402 has three more maps. I don't know what they are.

Location of the value in this lookup table is the lookup criterion. Table size is defined in program: There are pointer values In different functions, pointer is used to choose suitable map from "table of tables".
mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

sorry bro but the F222 is selected by wrong !!! i dont mean anything by selecting it
another think bro i wanna know , it about the rpm limiter
in the 413 506 M3 ecu ( i believe its m3 us which is basicaly m50 stroker ) have this rpm limiters depend on speed i wanna make the same think so i can do a " launch control" but this is very difficult for me , can we do it in the 402 ? a similar thing ?
rpm+speed.jpg
rpm+speed.jpg (39.92 KiB) Viewed 14765 times
olafu
Posts: 186
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Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

Seems like that speed based rev limiter is only M3 (us and euro) thing.
In M3.3.1 this is very simple difference and i think it is very similar in M3.1.
3.3.1 ecu's -965.bin has this one table for rev limits. Program picks rev limiter value from table and stores it in to RAM. Rev limiter part of program is similar in fixed rev limiter versions and speed based versions, only difference is that address where the rev limiter reads rev limit value - Fixed versions reads it from ROM and speed based versions reads it from RAM.
Olegonic
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Russia

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by Olegonic »

Hi guys!

I have installed Garrett GT2860 on stock m50b25 NON VANOS and want to get 280 - 300 hp
Compression ratio is about 9,7 with a 2 mm head gasket. From what I heard stock head gasket can stand 1.0 bar
It runs now and drivable, however I didnt rev it more than 3000 RPM
My boost controller is set to 0,5 bar so far, but I think I would need to raise it up to 0.7 - 0.8 in order to reach desired HP
AEM wideband AFR

I have Tuner PRO chip and software. What shall I start with?
Is it possible to tune the ECU alone or I ALWAYS need a passenger who will monitor/adjust the values when I drive
How do you monitor "knoking"

Your advise is highly appreciated, thanks!
BMW E30, M50B25 NV turbo
olafu
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:35 pm
Location: Finland

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by olafu »

Olegonic wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:05 am Hi guys!

I have installed Garrett GT2860 on stock m50b25 NON VANOS and want to get 280 - 300 hp
Compression ratio is about 9,7 with a 2 mm head gasket. From what I heard stock head gasket can stand 1.0 bar
It runs now and drivable, however I didnt rev it more than 3000 RPM
My boost controller is set to 0,5 bar so far, but I think I would need to raise it up to 0.7 - 0.8 in order to reach desired HP
AEM wideband AFR

I have Tuner PRO chip and software. What shall I start with?
Is it possible to tune the ECU alone or I ALWAYS need a passenger who will monitor/adjust the values when I drive
How do you monitor "knoking"

Your advise is highly appreciated, thanks!
Better place for this is in "General Tuning Discussion". But yes, you need good co-tuner if you want to do everything on the road. And durable brakes for stabilization of driving conditions :D Many knock-monitoring headphones with advanced filters are available, but if you can recognize knocking by sound, you can use modified ear defenders. Small plastic pipe from engine bay to ear cup is usually enough (at least better than nothing). Small pipe is also filter and only higher frequency sounds comes out. Price is usually reason for using the modified standard ecu (or state of mind), but without knock sensors you are at same line as other tuners without knock sensors.

What did you mean by "Tuner pro chip" ?
mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

im interested on boosting my m50b25 with same power 280-300 also if you can help me on that
for the tune better to switch to ms41 ( m52 management ) if you wanna keep the oem management you have to find a way to detect knock and afr !!
i suggest to tune it on dyno ... and buy a flashable eprom for the stock ecu its a lot better
Olegonic
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Russia

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by Olegonic »

I mean I have MOTRONIC ONLINE eeprom emulator - Motronic RTP
https://cobrartp.com/en/
BMW E30, M50B25 NV turbo
mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

but if cant detect knock and afr with it its useless !! better you change to ms41 bro its a loooooooooooooot better
Olegonic
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 pm
Location: Russia

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by Olegonic »

mahdi93 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:59 am this is the first step as i understand make the " table of table" in a list like thisStep 1.jpg
then i have the WOT fueling map start at 0x7234 = "8B 8A" , but i cant find it in this list ( i searched for 7234 , 8B8A, 3472, 34F2 ) or what should i found ?
I use the same Tuner PRO soft and XDF with tables
Why when I change parameters, for instance in idle fuel map and upply changes it doesn’t affect anything? I mean AFR is still the same
BMW E30, M50B25 NV turbo
mahdi93
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: M50 402 "table of tables"

Post by mahdi93 »

mmmmm im not sure but i remember i learn this in an old post
i think the ecu adapting the fueling try to disable lambda and see what it change ( even if on these old engine lambda is not very very big deal ) but try this and see
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