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No Data at ALDL connector.

 
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: No Data at ALDL connector. Reply with quote

Very long story in a nut shell:

I built a 1990 Jeep Wrangler YJ with a 5.7L Chevy engine.
I bought a doner car for the TPI system which was a 1987 IROC Camaro Z.
I bought a custom wire harness from a now nonexistent company called (CustomEFI).
The harness was built to suit the options I wanted to use on my Jeep engine including converting to MAP from MAF.
The computer service # is: 16196395 BJLH, additional number on Computer is: 86BJLHK533013467
I also purchased Moates data logger, Burn 2, and Ostrich emulator, I also have the two items pictured on your web site (the green thing and the memcal).


The Problem:

I plug in a OBD1 scanner and I get no data. Scanner says not connected and to check ALDL link.
Wires seemingly go to the correct pins on the computer but again no data.
Engine starts but doesn't run well; hi rev idle, to hot, etc.


Solution:

Not sure?
With no data or connectivity between ALDL and scanner, data logger or emulator I'm basically dead in my tracks.
Can you recommend anything that can help me with these problems?


Where I am at this point:

Very frustrated.
Ready to either invest more money with clear direction hopefully from you to get these problems resolved and this engine running as it should or just go back to a carburetor.
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That PCM is for a mid '90s TBI truck. Are you positive that's the service number?

From your description of how the engine is running, it sounds like it is in Limp Home Mode (LHM).

When you turn the key on, before starting it, does the CEL come on, flash off once and then stay on until started or does it just come on and stay on?
When the engine is running is the CEL on solid?

When you are trying to retrieve data, is this with the stock MEMCAL or with the Ostrich plugged in?
If you are using the Ostrich, have you uploaded the bin to it?
Have you loaded a proper ADS/ADX to Tuner Pro for the bin you are using?
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
That PCM is for a mid '90s TBI truck. Are you positive that's the service number?

From your description of how the engine is running, it sounds like it is in Limp Home Mode (LHM).

When you turn the key on, before starting it, does the CEL come on, flash off once and then stay on until started or does it just come on and stay on?
When the engine is running is the CEL on solid?

When you are trying to retrieve data, is this with the stock MEMCAL or with the Ostrich plugged in?
If you are using the Ostrich, have you uploaded the bin to it?
Have you loaded a proper ADS/ADX to Tuner Pro for the bin you are using?


I realize the computer is from a 1994 truck with TBI. Supposedly it was re-tuned for my application. Like I said it does start but doesn't run well. The CEL comes on as soon as you turn the ignition to the on position and it stays on after it starts. The memcal was apparently tuned by the now defunct guy who owned and ran Custom EFI but has since disappeared. When I install the adapter that relocates the memcal and allows the Ostrich to be plugged in it will again start be runs very differently then without the adapter but still poorly. I have not been able to use any of the Moates items I mentioned in my first post because they are not receiving and data and therefore are not being recognized. I also purchased Tuner Pro RT but again no data. I'm going to post some pictures in the next post to show you the things I'm working with. Thanks for trying to help I really want this to work as it should.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeep TPI wires and connection points.

Computer Service # 16196395 Other #ís 86BJLHK533013467


Main Computer Power 12 Volt 24/7


Computer Ground & O2 Ground


Air Temp Sensor


Set Timing Connector


Distributor Connection


Speed Sensor


MAP Sensor


Idle Control Motor


Throttle Position Sensor


O2 Sensor


Injector Wires passenger side shown


Knock Sensor


Coolant Sensor


EGR Wires Not Shown
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote









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robertisaar
Author of Defs


Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 879
Location: Camden, MI

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you are in limp-home mode, and it's starting to sound like it, that would explain most if not all of the problems you're having.

assuming you have a computer controlled cooling fan, does it attempt to turn on even at low coolant temps?
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

robertisaar wrote:
if you are in limp-home mode, and it's starting to sound like it, that would explain most if not all of the problems you're having.

assuming you have a computer controlled cooling fan, does it attempt to turn on even at low coolant temps?


That ECM in stock form does not control a fan.

It sounds like LHM to me for sure.

What bin file are you using? For that PCM, it should code either $0D or $OE, most commonly.

To run the TPI/MPFI there will need to be a jumper wire on the MEMCAL, on the LHM/Knock sensor side between pins 14 and 56 IIRC, check to make sure this is there.

The PCM should still be reading the PROM regardless.

I suggest you down load a known $0D or $0E, upload it to the Ostrich and just see the reaction of the CEL at key on. It should give you the flash, if it does, then you know the PCM is reading the PROM (Or Ostrich). Moates.net has a bunch of bin files, I believe there are also some here (tunerpro.net) as well.

Are you using an electronic tranny?
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robertisaar wrote:
if you are in limp-home mode, and it's starting to sound like it, that would explain most if not all of the problems you're having.

assuming you have a computer controlled cooling fan, does it attempt to turn on even at low coolant temps?



No electric fans.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
robertisaar wrote:
if you are in limp-home mode, and it's starting to sound like it, that would explain most if not all of the problems you're having.

assuming you have a computer controlled cooling fan, does it attempt to turn on even at low coolant temps?


That ECM in stock form does not control a fan.

It sounds like LHM to me for sure.

What bin file are you using? For that PCM, it should code either $0D or $OE, most commonly.

To run the TPI/MPFI there will need to be a jumper wire on the MEMCAL, on the LHM/Knock sensor side between pins 14 and 56 IIRC, check to make sure this is there.

The PCM should still be reading the PROM regardless.

I suggest you down load a known $0D or $0E, upload it to the Ostrich and just see the reaction of the CEL at key on. It should give you the flash, if it does, then you know the PCM is reading the PROM (Or Ostrich). Moates.net has a bunch of bin files, I believe there are also some here (tunerpro.net) as well.

Are you using an electronic tranny?


I don't know what bin. I can't make the ostrich do anything. I can't get any connection from the vehicle computer. I currently only slightly understand the ostrich and its purpose and as for loading things into it; I'm not there yet. Transmission is a manual shift from an old truck, no electronic.
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you are not using a manual tranny, I wonder why your suppler decided to use that PCM. It's just adding more complications and confusion for a first time tuner. Confused

Think of the ostrich as an EPROM, it is simply there to hold the bin file. The great thing about the Ostrich, being an EPROM Emulator, is that the bin file loaded to it can be change in part or as a whole on the fly.
To connect Tuner Pro to the Ostrich, you can use the "Initialize Emulation Hardware Button" (Looks kinda like an old printer cable, with a snaking cable in the tool bar)to force Tuner Pro to query the ports and find the Ostrich. You should get a tone and "Ostrich II v.??.?." (The question marks will be the firmware version). This shows that there is a connection an using the blue up arrow in the tool bar will load the current bin loaded in TP RT to the Ostrich.
To have full on emulation, as in changes that are made in the bin are automatically uploaded to the Ostrich, you would click the Enable/Disable Emulation button (looks like a blue PROM/chip). Don't worry about the emulation part for now, there's another change that would need to be made to the bin to have this work fully, but we'll get to that once your PCM is reading the EPROM/Ostrich correctly and not in LHM.

Go to Moates.net and download the bion file named "BJYM_0D." This is a stock bin file that could have been used in the PCM you are using. Follow the outline I have above for loading the bin to the Ostrich, turn the key on and watch the CEL. It should flash on for about a second, turn off for a bout a second, then turn on and stay on. This shows that the PCM is reading from the Ostrich/EPROM.

After we get this to work, we can move on. It might help to upload the bin file you have supplied to you, if you have it, if not we'll have to get you to read it from the EPROM in the MEMCAL.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Since you are not using a manual tranny, I wonder why your suppler decided to use that PCM. It's just adding more complications and confusion for a first time tuner. Confused

Think of the ostrich as an EPROM, it is simply there to hold the bin file. The great thing about the Ostrich, being an EPROM Emulator, is that the bin file loaded to it can be change in part or as a whole on the fly.
To connect Tuner Pro to the Ostrich, you can use the "Initialize Emulation Hardware Button" (Looks kinda like an old printer cable, with a snaking cable in the tool bar)to force Tuner Pro to query the ports and find the Ostrich. You should get a tone and "Ostrich II v.??.?." (The question marks will be the firmware version). This shows that there is a connection an using the blue up arrow in the tool bar will load the current bin loaded in TP RT to the Ostrich.
To have full on emulation, as in changes that are made in the bin are automatically uploaded to the Ostrich, you would click the Enable/Disable Emulation button (looks like a blue PROM/chip). Don't worry about the emulation part for now, there's another change that would need to be made to the bin to have this work fully, but we'll get to that once your PCM is reading the EPROM/Ostrich correctly and not in LHM.

Go to Moates.net and download the bion file named "BJYM_0D." This is a stock bin file that could have been used in the PCM you are using. Follow the outline I have above for loading the bin to the Ostrich, turn the key on and watch the CEL. It should flash on for about a second, turn off for a bout a second, then turn on and stay on. This shows that the PCM is reading from the Ostrich/EPROM.

After we get this to work, we can move on. It might help to upload the bin file you have supplied to you, if you have it, if not we'll have to get you to read it from the EPROM in the MEMCAL.


WOW. OK. I will re-read your instructions a few more times and do as you say. Unfortunately I wont be able to until probably Monday night. Traveling all day today and wont get a chance to do anything with it today. I will write back asap. Thanks again.
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool.

We'll try to get what you have running first.

At the most I see an ECM swap, which is just a re-pin to different connectors to plug in an ECM that would be more matched to what you have. I still find it odd that the supplier would send you a TBI PCM for what you have. It can run MPFI, but it is usually only people that have been tuning for a while that attempt something like that, due to some ofthe hardware changes and some of the nitty gritty bin changes that need to be made.

Oh well, let's see what we can do with the equipment you have before swapping out parts.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenno wrote:
Six_Shooter wrote:
Since you are not using a manual tranny, I wonder why your suppler decided to use that PCM. It's just adding more complications and confusion for a first time tuner. Confused

Think of the ostrich as an EPROM, it is simply there to hold the bin file. The great thing about the Ostrich, being an EPROM Emulator, is that the bin file loaded to it can be change in part or as a whole on the fly.
To connect Tuner Pro to the Ostrich, you can use the "Initialize Emulation Hardware Button" (Looks kinda like an old printer cable, with a snaking cable in the tool bar)to force Tuner Pro to query the ports and find the Ostrich. You should get a tone and "Ostrich II v.??.?." (The question marks will be the firmware version). This shows that there is a connection an using the blue up arrow in the tool bar will load the current bin loaded in TP RT to the Ostrich.
To have full on emulation, as in changes that are made in the bin are automatically uploaded to the Ostrich, you would click the Enable/Disable Emulation button (looks like a blue PROM/chip). Don't worry about the emulation part for now, there's another change that would need to be made to the bin to have this work fully, but we'll get to that once your PCM is reading the EPROM/Ostrich correctly and not in LHM.

Go to Moates.net and download the bion file named "BJYM_0D." This is a stock bin file that could have been used in the PCM you are using. Follow the outline I have above for loading the bin to the Ostrich, turn the key on and watch the CEL. It should flash on for about a second, turn off for a bout a second, then turn on and stay on. This shows that the PCM is reading from the Ostrich/EPROM.

After we get this to work, we can move on. It might help to upload the bin file you have supplied to you, if you have it, if not we'll have to get you to read it from the EPROM in the MEMCAL.


WOW. OK. I will re-read your instructions a few more times and do as you say. Unfortunately I wont be able to until probably Monday night. Traveling all day today and wont get a chance to do anything with it today. I will write back asap. Thanks again.





If you can view these videos I made maybe you can better see what Iím trying to do. Sorry they are torturous!

http://youtu.be/_e0xrRWKVNQ

http://youtu.be/CtR2mjG0bpI

http://youtu.be/PyMNEma3zNE

http://youtu.be/SiZ80kq2kXI
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to comment on one video at a time, so if I say something responding to o9ne video, then change something later on, just ask for clarification, if something doesn't make sense. Great idea making videos BTW.

Glenno wrote:
If you can view these videos I made maybe you can better see what Iím trying to do. Sorry they are torturous!

http://youtu.be/_e0xrRWKVNQ


Ok, the little blip heard at 0:47 is the sound that I was speaking about. That confirms connection. There are other sounds, similar to or the same as that one that tells you if the upload was successful. I think that was the upload sound that was heard there.

You don't have an XDF loaded, so emulating will do nothing for you. You need the XDF loaded to Tuner Pro. This is basically a road map of what is in the bin file, and shown in terms we can understand and manipulate. The XDF will populate "All these things that are empty" at 0:27. Wink

You don't have a bin file selected, so again Emulating really won't do anything for you, and anything that you have uploaded would not be a bin file that the PCM will understand.

To load a Bin file you need to click on either "file>Open" or the yellow open folder to the very left side of the tool bar. This will open a menu that will allow you to browse to where you have saved any bin files. Initially it should open to some bins that are loaded with Tuner Pro RT, I don't recall if there are any bin files that will work for you in there.

The ALDL Not connected, has to do more with the ALDL Xtreme cable. This will require an ADS (Tuner Pro V4 uses an ADS, Tuner Pro V5 uses an ADX, there is a way to import an ADS to an ADX, but that won't apply to you right now). To set this up, you need to go Tools>ALDL/Datalogging>Set-up. Using the F4 key will also get you there. Once you open this window you will be able to set the com port for the cable (there is a handy little test button to verify that it is the correct port) and the ADS file to be used. The ADS file is again, basically a road map to decipher the data stream that is coming from the PCM, and displayed in terms that humans can understand.

Also check to make sure your ZIF socket and is seated right into the DIP socket in the adapter and that the ribbon cable is seated into the ZIF socket correctly. It looks like it is not installed correctly in the video.

The ribbon cable is oriented correctly. The Red stripe is at the correct end.

Yes, at 0:45 you mentioned the "V2 dot dot dot," that is exactly what I was refering to. This verifies that the Ostrich is recognized by TPRT, this is good, we can leave that part and work on the other things that are missing. Smile

The single flash tells me it is trying to read something from the Ostrich, but it's likely not something that is use-able by the PCM.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/CtR2mjG0bpI


The bin is loaded to Tuner Pro in this video. One step closer. Very Happy

Try uploading the bin to the Ostrich again. I have found sometimes, that even if I get a good tone, the upload sometimes isn't complete, a second press seems to resolve that.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/PyMNEma3zNE


Perfect!!!

PROGRESS!!

The PCM is reading the bin from the Ostrich, and is recognized as a valid program.

The fuel pump running for an extended period is from settings in the bin that instructs it to hold the pump on that long.

Going back to the ALDL, that has to do with there being no ALDL Extreme cable connected to the ALDL port, and no ADS loaded to Tuner Pro.

The reason the CEL didn't flash that second time was because you didn't leave the key off long enough. IIRC the key has to be off for about 8 to 10 seconds for the PCM to fully power down and go through the start sequence again that will show the flash, then solid CEL.

This also basically verifies that the ribbin cable and ZIF socket are seated properly, must just be the optics on the camera playing tricks.

You're getting there, one step at a time.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/SiZ80kq2kXI


I'm not entirely sure about this one.

I have had this problem when I have moved a file, and then try to open from the "recent bins/xdf/ADX" drop down menus. So if you moved the file between loading it to Tuner Pro and trying that recent bins selection that would definitely cause it.

Just to make sure, you downloaded the file to your PC and then loaded it to Tuner Pro RT from your PC, correct?

To sum it all up, we now know that the PCM appears to be wired correctly, due to the way it reacts, being CEL and fuel pump prime, it's reading the bin file from the Ostrich, so you are getting close now.

Next thing to do is to get the ADS loaded to Tuner Pro, so that you can connect to the ALDL and get some data from the PCM.

On Moates.net there look to be a couple $0D datastream definitions, both that I can see quickly look to be in .zip folders, which as long as you have an extractor, like Winzip (IIRC a free download if you don't), then down load one or both, and load one to Tuner Pro, set the com port for the cable, make sure when you test the cable for function via Tuner Pro, that the ALDL cable is not connected to the car at all. Once this is all set up you can then again, go back to a key on state, watch for that CEL flash, press connect on Tuner Pro RT, and you should get a connected message.

Once you get the connected message you can open the dash, which is found in the tool bar and is a large "D." The "V" is for a "values" list, that has more things than what you will see in the dash, "F" is for "flags," meaning that it will show the simple on/off values that are in the data stream such as closed loop, or TCC control, etc. The "M" is for "monitors," we won't bother with that until you are comfortable with the rest of the program first lol.

You also need to get an XDF loaded so that you can see the values in the bin file. $0D.xdf that is at moates.net should be a good one to start with. Very Happy
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
I'm going to comment on one video at a time, so if I say something responding to o9ne video, then change something later on, just ask for clarification, if something doesn't make sense. Great idea making videos BTW.

Glenno wrote:
If you can view these videos I made maybe you can better see what Iím trying to do. Sorry they are torturous!

http://youtu.be/_e0xrRWKVNQ


Ok, the little blip heard at 0:47 is the sound that I was speaking about. That confirms connection. There are other sounds, similar to or the same as that one that tells you if the upload was successful. I think that was the upload sound that was heard there.

You don't have an XDF loaded, so emulating will do nothing for you. You need the XDF loaded to Tuner Pro. This is basically a road map of what is in the bin file, and shown in terms we can understand and manipulate. The XDF will populate "All these things that are empty" at 0:27. Wink

You don't have a bin file selected, so again Emulating really won't do anything for you, and anything that you have uploaded would not be a bin file that the PCM will understand.

To load a Bin file you need to click on either "file>Open" or the yellow open folder to the very left side of the tool bar. This will open a menu that will allow you to browse to where you have saved any bin files. Initially it should open to some bins that are loaded with Tuner Pro RT, I don't recall if there are any bin files that will work for you in there.

The ALDL Not connected, has to do more with the ALDL Xtreme cable. This will require an ADS (Tuner Pro V4 uses an ADS, Tuner Pro V5 uses an ADX, there is a way to import an ADS to an ADX, but that won't apply to you right now). To set this up, you need to go Tools>ALDL/Datalogging>Set-up. Using the F4 key will also get you there. Once you open this window you will be able to set the com port for the cable (there is a handy little test button to verify that it is the correct port) and the ADS file to be used. The ADS file is again, basically a road map to decipher the data stream that is coming from the PCM, and displayed in terms that humans can understand.

Also check to make sure your ZIF socket and is seated right into the DIP socket in the adapter and that the ribbon cable is seated into the ZIF socket correctly. It looks like it is not installed correctly in the video.

The ribbon cable is oriented correctly. The Red stripe is at the correct end.

Yes, at 0:45 you mentioned the "V2 dot dot dot," that is exactly what I was refering to. This verifies that the Ostrich is recognized by TPRT, this is good, we can leave that part and work on the other things that are missing. Smile

The single flash tells me it is trying to read something from the Ostrich, but it's likely not something that is use-able by the PCM.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/CtR2mjG0bpI


The bin is loaded to Tuner Pro in this video. One step closer. Very Happy

Try uploading the bin to the Ostrich again. I have found sometimes, that even if I get a good tone, the upload sometimes isn't complete, a second press seems to resolve that.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/PyMNEma3zNE


Perfect!!!

PROGRESS!!

The PCM is reading the bin from the Ostrich, and is recognized as a valid program.

The fuel pump running for an extended period is from settings in the bin that instructs it to hold the pump on that long.

Going back to the ALDL, that has to do with there being no ALDL Extreme cable connected to the ALDL port, and no ADS loaded to Tuner Pro.

The reason the CEL didn't flash that second time was because you didn't leave the key off long enough. IIRC the key has to be off for about 8 to 10 seconds for the PCM to fully power down and go through the start sequence again that will show the flash, then solid CEL.

This also basically verifies that the ribbin cable and ZIF socket are seated properly, must just be the optics on the camera playing tricks.

You're getting there, one step at a time.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/SiZ80kq2kXI


I'm not entirely sure about this one.

I have had this problem when I have moved a file, and then try to open from the "recent bins/xdf/ADX" drop down menus. So if you moved the file between loading it to Tuner Pro and trying that recent bins selection that would definitely cause it.

Just to make sure, you downloaded the file to your PC and then loaded it to Tuner Pro RT from your PC, correct?

To sum it all up, we now know that the PCM appears to be wired correctly, due to the way it reacts, being CEL and fuel pump prime, it's reading the bin file from the Ostrich, so you are getting close now.

Next thing to do is to get the ADS loaded to Tuner Pro, so that you can connect to the ALDL and get some data from the PCM.

On Moates.net there look to be a couple $0D datastream definitions, both that I can see quickly look to be in .zip folders, which as long as you have an extractor, like Winzip (IIRC a free download if you don't), then down load one or both, and load one to Tuner Pro, set the com port for the cable, make sure when you test the cable for function via Tuner Pro, that the ALDL cable is not connected to the car at all. Once this is all set up you can then again, go back to a key on state, watch for that CEL flash, press connect on Tuner Pro RT, and you should get a connected message.

Once you get the connected message you can open the dash, which is found in the tool bar and is a large "D." The "V" is for a "values" list, that has more things than what you will see in the dash, "F" is for "flags," meaning that it will show the simple on/off values that are in the data stream such as closed loop, or TCC control, etc. The "M" is for "monitors," we won't bother with that until you are comfortable with the rest of the program first lol.

You also need to get an XDF loaded so that you can see the values in the bin file. $0D.xdf that is at moates.net should be a good one to start with. Very Happy


WOW WOW WOW I'm getting excited!

This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to print this out and go in the garage after work tomorrow with video camera in hand and see how much further I can get.

I have some other questions that I can present much more clearly in video form. Hopefully my questions will be pertinent to the process?

Thanks a million for your knowledge and guidance!

Glenn
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, we all were where you are once, and I know how it can be a bit daunting and frustrating at first, especially when you're not sure how to get everything set up. The fear of damaging something is high. Usually though at this stage it would be very difficult to really damage something.

This may take a while to get you set up and confident, so don't get discouraged if this takes a bit. I'm trying to not hit you with too much information all at once, just taking one step at a time.

The part that makes your particular swap difficult is that the person that supplied the harness and PCM to you supplied a rather odd choice for the application. Like I said before it can be used for this, it just wouldn't have been the usual first choice for your swap.

I want to help you get the tuning software and tuning hardware side squared away first, because no matter what ECM is used in the end, the tuning software and hardware side will be the same or very similar anyway, so gettng this down first is the important part.

There is a hardware modification needed on the PCM side to make this work right, but I want to wait until the rest is in place first, so that's another reason this will take a while to get set-up. Smile
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
No problem, we all were where you are once, and I know how it can be a bit daunting and frustrating at first, especially when you're not sure how to get everything set up. The fear of damaging something is high. Usually though at this stage it would be very difficult to really damage something.

This may take a while to get you set up and confident, so don't get discouraged if this takes a bit. I'm trying to not hit you with too much information all at once, just taking one step at a time.

The part that makes your particular swap difficult is that the person that supplied the harness and PCM to you supplied a rather odd choice for the application. Like I said before it can be used for this, it just wouldn't have been the usual first choice for your swap.

I want to help you get the tuning software and tuning hardware side squared away first, because no matter what ECM is used in the end, the tuning software and hardware side will be the same or very similar anyway, so gettng this down first is the important part.

There is a hardware modification needed on the PCM side to make this work right, but I want to wait until the rest is in place first, so that's another reason this will take a while to get set-up. Smile



So here are the things I tried to do tonight. Does any of it seem to be working correctly? Thanks Glenn


http://youtu.be/MgIYxlvl0og

http://youtu.be/EDt0eQGSnt0

http://youtu.be/cnBybHrYB3A

http://youtu.be/WsV8Og53_Uo

http://youtu.be/72MpZjhFBxo
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Six_Shooter



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Posts: 580

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, one video at a time...

Glenno wrote:
So here are the things I tried to do tonight. Does any of it seem to be working correctly? Thanks Glenn


http://youtu.be/MgIYxlvl0og


Yes that is all connected correctly, the video where the BJYM_0D bin was loaded and showed the proper CEL function at key verified the Ostrich side. Wink

Quote:
http://youtu.be/EDt0eQGSnt0


Like I said a couple replies ago, you need to load an XDF, there are a couple on the moates site, for the $0D code mask. They just look to be in .zip format, which means you will need to unzip them using a program like WinZip.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/cnBybHrYB3A


Go back and re-read where I talked about the ADS file to use to decipher the datastream and how to set all of that up. You were in the correct screen/window to set it up. The Browse button will allow you to browse to the file that you need to use. Again that file will be downloaded from moates.net. Most of the buttons you don't need to worry about, just the browse button, and the connect to ECM button at this point, we'll leave the recording data (as opposed to just viewing it live) for now.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/WsV8Og53_Uo


The Ostrich has NOTHING to do with the datalogging, again, you need to use the ALDL Xtreme cable you have plugged into the ALDL port.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/72MpZjhFBxo


Again, the CEL flash there shows that the PCM is reading the Ostrich, as it should be.

There isn't anything more to do here, until you load an XDF and get the datalogging working. Refer back a couple posts for instructions on how to do that.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Again, one video at a time...

Glenno wrote:
So here are the things I tried to do tonight. Does any of it seem to be working correctly? Thanks Glenn


http://youtu.be/MgIYxlvl0og


Yes that is all connected correctly, the video where the BJYM_0D bin was loaded and showed the proper CEL function at key verified the Ostrich side. Wink

Quote:
http://youtu.be/EDt0eQGSnt0


Like I said a couple replies ago, you need to load an XDF, there are a couple on the moates site, for the $0D code mask. They just look to be in .zip format, which means you will need to unzip them using a program like WinZip.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/cnBybHrYB3A


Go back and re-read where I talked about the ADS file to use to decipher the datastream and how to set all of that up. You were in the correct screen/window to set it up. The Browse button will allow you to browse to the file that you need to use. Again that file will be downloaded from moates.net. Most of the buttons you don't need to worry about, just the browse button, and the connect to ECM button at this point, we'll leave the recording data (as opposed to just viewing it live) for now.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/WsV8Og53_Uo


The Ostrich has NOTHING to do with the datalogging, again, you need to use the ALDL Xtreme cable you have plugged into the ALDL port.

Quote:
http://youtu.be/72MpZjhFBxo


Again, the CEL flash there shows that the PCM is reading the Ostrich, as it should be.

There isn't anything more to do here, until you load an XDF and get the datalogging working. Refer back a couple posts for instructions on how to do that.




OK XDF from Moates.net needs to be loaded and I need to re-read where you talked about ADS file. Ostrich and data streaming are two different things. Data streaming uses the ALDL port and ALDL Xtreme cable. The Ostrich will allow me to use a bin I loaded into it to be manipulated in real time and run the engine. The XDF and the ADS are the interface tools that make it human. Does it sound like I'm getting a clue? I will do the things above and get back to you. May be a few days because I have some family things coming up.

Thanks again.
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenno wrote:
OK XDF from Moates.net needs to be loaded and I need to re-read where you talked about ADS file. Ostrich and data streaming are two different things. Data streaming uses the ALDL port and ALDL Xtreme cable. The Ostrich will allow me to use a bin I loaded into it to be manipulated in real time and run the engine. The XDF and the ADS are the interface tools that make it human. Does it sound like I'm getting a clue? I will do the things above and get back to you. May be a few days because I have some family things coming up.

Thanks again.


Yes, that's actually a better explanation than I could have come up with. It sounds like you're getting it.
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any news?
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Any news?



Howz it?

The news is this. I was having trouble loading my site key into Tuner Pro RT for a while now. Long story short the TP-RT version I had loaded was a 4.14 and kind of out of date. I was instructed by Mark from tuner pro to download TP-RT version 5.0. I did that today and I now have full registered access! Yea! Problem is I haven't been able to load an XDF file. The reason is when I go to the moates.net and click on downloads there are an extreme amount of XDF options and I have no idea which one to choose? Also when I clicked on one for the hell of it, it opens a page of data but it doesn't seem to have an option of downloading to my computer anyway? So this is where I am. I need clear direction again on how to download an XDF file and which one? I also tried to upload the bin file from the emulator that we loaded last week and tuner pro indicated that I need an XDF file! As you said I would. So I need to get over the XDF file hurdle so I can inch forward. Thanks again Glenn
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To download a file from the moates site (only some people seem to have this issue and it seems to be a browser setting), right click on the file you want to save, then use the "save link as..." or "save target as..." option.

Try to lok for a file that has "0D", or your PCM number (though it could still be the wrong XDF) in the title.

The only thing that will happen when loading an incorrect XDF for your bin is that the numbers will be really skewed, and it will be obvious.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
To download a file from the moates site (only some people seem to have this issue and it seems to be a browser setting), right click on the file you want to save, then use the "save link as..." or "save target as..." option.

Try to lok for a file that has "0D", or your PCM number (though it could still be the wrong XDF) in the title.

The only thing that will happen when loading an incorrect XDF for your bin is that the numbers will be really skewed, and it will be obvious.



OK here is where I got to today.

http://youtu.be/rj4wdXVC_Nc


http://youtu.be/NKDA1XClUBk


http://youtu.be/ObOQ2Q3n9GI



Thanks again Glenn
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenno wrote:
Six_Shooter wrote:
To download a file from the moates site (only some people seem to have this issue and it seems to be a browser setting), right click on the file you want to save, then use the "save link as..." or "save target as..." option.

Try to lok for a file that has "0D", or your PCM number (though it could still be the wrong XDF) in the title.

The only thing that will happen when loading an incorrect XDF for your bin is that the numbers will be really skewed, and it will be obvious.



OK here is where I got to today.

http://youtu.be/rj4wdXVC_Nc


The directions I gave you before were for V4, since that's what you were using previously.

In V5, go to the Acquisition menu, for all of the ALDL file manipulating.

To set up the hardware side you do need to access the preferences menu under the tools menu. You will find a tab once you click on preferences to set up the ALDL hardware. Meaning COM port, and the cable test I was talking about.


Quote:
http://youtu.be/NKDA1XClUBk


That is one way to load the ADX, I hadn't thought about dragging and dropping. lol

I would put all the files you want to use in a common folder that is just for tunig, it will make it easier to find the files you need.

The Scanner Pro files won't for you. Scanner Pro was a logging software that was integrated into V5, but there was enough of a change along the way that the Scanner Pro files no longer function in V5.

The Hardware Not Found box is strictly for the emulation hardware. The ALDL cable won't ever be "found" by using the Initialize Hardware button.

Set up the hardware in the preferences tab, turn the ignition on, click connect (the two oppsoing blue arrows), you should see the "D/A: Not Connected" turn to "Connected". Then click on the dashboard Icon, which is a red circle in the tool bar, if you look close, you'll see a needle on that makes it look like a gauge. This was the Scanner Pro logo, just FYI.


Quote:
http://youtu.be/ObOQ2Q3n9GI


Yes.

If you click on them you will see tables and scalers open, that will show you the values of each, go a head click on any of them, even change some, as long as you don't save the changes they will revert back to what they were before.



Quote:
Thanks again Glenn
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Glenno wrote:
Six_Shooter wrote:
To download a file from the moates site (only some people seem to have this issue and it seems to be a browser setting), right click on the file you want to save, then use the "save link as..." or "save target as..." option.

Try to lok for a file that has "0D", or your PCM number (though it could still be the wrong XDF) in the title.

The only thing that will happen when loading an incorrect XDF for your bin is that the numbers will be really skewed, and it will be obvious.



OK here is where I got to today.

http://youtu.be/rj4wdXVC_Nc


The directions I gave you before were for V4, since that's what you were using previously.

In V5, go to the Acquisition menu, for all of the ALDL file manipulating.

To set up the hardware side you do need to access the preferences menu under the tools menu. You will find a tab once you click on preferences to set up the ALDL hardware. Meaning COM port, and the cable test I was talking about.


Quote:
http://youtu.be/NKDA1XClUBk


That is one way to load the ADX, I hadn't thought about dragging and dropping. lol

I would put all the files you want to use in a common folder that is just for tunig, it will make it easier to find the files you need.

The Scanner Pro files won't for you. Scanner Pro was a logging software that was integrated into V5, but there was enough of a change along the way that the Scanner Pro files no longer function in V5.

The Hardware Not Found box is strictly for the emulation hardware. The ALDL cable won't ever be "found" by using the Initialize Hardware button.

Set up the hardware in the preferences tab, turn the ignition on, click connect (the two oppsoing blue arrows), you should see the "D/A: Not Connected" turn to "Connected". Then click on the dashboard Icon, which is a red circle in the tool bar, if you look close, you'll see a needle on that makes it look like a gauge. This was the Scanner Pro logo, just FYI.


Quote:
http://youtu.be/ObOQ2Q3n9GI


Yes.

If you click on them you will see tables and scalers open, that will show you the values of each, go a head click on any of them, even change some, as long as you don't save the changes they will revert back to what they were before.



Quote:
Thanks again Glenn




OK cool. Thanks. I will print this out and get back out there after work tomorrow. I feel like the light at the end of the tunnel is approaching!!!
I'll hit you back hopefully tomorrow evening. Thanks again. Glenn
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Any news?


OK here we go again. This is what 's happening at this point.

http://youtu.be/aS_mnf2q9Y0

http://youtu.be/-EHKEBLTGKI


Thanks again. Glenn
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Six_Shooter



Joined: 06 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenno wrote:
Six_Shooter wrote:
Any news?


OK here we go again. This is what 's happening at this point.

http://youtu.be/aS_mnf2q9Y0


When you test for the cable do NOT have it plugged into the vehicle, you need to test the cable with nothing connected to the other end, just the USB connected to the computer. It likely won't be be COM1 since COM1 is usually a bonefied serial port, not a virtual serial port like the USB interface that you have uses.

If you do get multiple errors, it may be the ADX. Some ADX files seem to need more work than others.

I use the files found in this thread, which I think are on the moates site:http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/330042-0d-tuning-files.html

Quote:
http://youtu.be/-EHKEBLTGKI


You should be set to "Use Plug-in" and "standard serial".

Like I said previously test for the cable without it being connected to the vehicle, then set it to that port. You can also open your Device manager and see which port the ALDL cable is plugged into there and then set TP RT to that port.

To check for connection on the dashboard I usually look at the TPS and just press the pedal a few times to see the reaction I'm looking for on the screen, before starting.

There are some other things we need to address before starting your jeep at this point anyway.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Glenno wrote:
Six_Shooter wrote:
Any news?


OK here we go again. This is what 's happening at this point.

http://youtu.be/aS_mnf2q9Y0


When you test for the cable do NOT have it plugged into the vehicle, you need to test the cable with nothing connected to the other end, just the USB connected to the computer. It likely won't be be COM1 since COM1 is usually a bonefied serial port, not a virtual serial port like the USB interface that you have uses.

If you do get multiple errors, it may be the ADX. Some ADX files seem to need more work than others.

I use the files found in this thread, which I think are on the moates site:http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/330042-0d-tuning-files.html

Quote:
http://youtu.be/-EHKEBLTGKI


You should be set to "Use Plug-in" and "standard serial".

Like I said previously test for the cable without it being connected to the vehicle, then set it to that port. You can also open your Device manager and see which port the ALDL cable is plugged into there and then set TP RT to that port.

To check for connection on the dashboard I usually look at the TPS and just press the pedal a few times to see the reaction I'm looking for on the screen, before starting.

There are some other things we need to address before starting your jeep at this point anyway.


OK I'll get out there tonight after work and try these things. Fingers crossed.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Any news?



Hey Six-Shooter,

I didn't get a chance to get out to the garage last night and I'm going to be out of town for a few days so it looks like next week for me. I'll post up whats happening by mid week next week. Again I appreciate all your help and I'll be in touch soon.

Thanks Glenn
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update?
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Update?



Here is the news. I had some projects my wife put me to work on so I haven't been out there in the garage as I would like to be. In the interim my wife found the original manual that the guy provided me when I purchased the harness and computer. I had somehow misplaced the manual (the wife really did) and it now has been found! I also re-read and printed out the steps to get the data logger working. I will definitely get out there in the next day or so and will be reporting to you what occurs. I'm hoping that I can get it to work so I can get going already. I'll post up in the next couple of days. Thanks again. Glenn
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Update?



http://youtu.be/YwMzszL3hK0


http://youtu.be/pj0C4-vreGg
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plug the USB cable into the ALDL Xtreme, THEN you will see the port for the cable in the device manager. With just the USB cable plugged into the back of the computer, the computer won't see anything on that USB port, it needs a device attached at the other end.

When I say not connected to the car, I mean not plugged into the ALDL connector of the vehicle. The little box needs to be connected to the computer when you test for the cable in the preferences menu in Tuner Pro.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Plug the USB cable into the ALDL Xtreme, THEN you will see the port for the cable in the device manager. With just the USB cable plugged into the back of the computer, the computer won't see anything on that USB port, it needs a device attached at the other end.

When I say not connected to the car, I mean not plugged into the ALDL connector of the vehicle. The little box needs to be connected to the computer when you test for the cable in the preferences menu in Tuner Pro.



OK will do today and get back to you today as well.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Update?


OK here is what I did tonight.

http://youtu.be/2D_b-vwrRMA

http://youtu.be/PY-aT3bBxY0

http://youtu.be/4RLezqRqfNQ

http://youtu.be/SZsTfqw2kzI
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok...

Again, to test for a functioning cable The ALDL cable has to be disconnected from the vehicle, but the ALDL Xtreme box needs to be connected to the USB cable. It makes no difference if you unplug it from the ALDL connector attached to the vehicle, or unplugging the RJ45 type connector from the ALDL Xtreme box.

To connect to the vehicle, after you have verified the found and functional cable, you will then need to connect it to the vehicle and switch the ignition on. You did not do these last steps in your videos, so of course it's not going to connect to anything.

The function of the connection button (the blue arrows) is to connect to the vehicle.

A found and functional cable is already recognized by Tuner Pro.

You should have that switch set to "open."
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Ok...

Again, to test for a functioning cable The ALDL cable has to be disconnected from the vehicle, but the ALDL Xtreme box needs to be connected to the USB cable. It makes no difference if you unplug it from the ALDL connector attached to the vehicle, or unplugging the RJ45 type connector from the ALDL Xtreme box.

To connect to the vehicle, after you have verified the found and functional cable, you will then need to connect it to the vehicle and switch the ignition on. You did not do these last steps in your videos, so of course it's not going to connect to anything.

The function of the connection button (the blue arrows) is to connect to the vehicle.

A found and functional cable is already recognized by Tuner Pro.

You should have that switch set to "open."


OK I'll get out there tomorrow; connect to the vehicle, turn key to on position, and click blue arrows. I'll post up results tomorrow. Thanks again. Glenn
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Ok...

Again, to test for a functioning cable The ALDL cable has to be disconnected from the vehicle, but the ALDL Xtreme box needs to be connected to the USB cable. It makes no difference if you unplug it from the ALDL connector attached to the vehicle, or unplugging the RJ45 type connector from the ALDL Xtreme box.

To connect to the vehicle, after you have verified the found and functional cable, you will then need to connect it to the vehicle and switch the ignition on. You did not do these last steps in your videos, so of course it's not going to connect to anything.

The function of the connection button (the blue arrows) is to connect to the vehicle.

A found and functional cable is already recognized by Tuner Pro.

You should have that switch set to "open."



I believe the engine exhaust is running extremely hot because the headers will turn red and the exhaust pipe all the way out get real hot real quick. How do I go about richening up the system and cooling things down first thing? I hope I didnít ruin the o2 sensor with the heat!?


http://youtu.be/GYqOqRmpcZQ

http://youtu.be/ETBWX5EQ2ig
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, now you're connected just the way you should be.

The AFR not changing doesn't apply to you, that has to do with a WBO2 input IIRC. You can change that gauge by right clicking on it and selecting a value that is applicable to you.

But before you run it, there's some hardware checks that need to be done.

On your MEMCAL is there a jumper soldered between two pins on the NETRES side (under the knock filter)? This jumper sets the PCM in V8 MPFI mode and is needed to run correctly. This could explain the stalling you are experiencing. This would not be a factory jumper so it should be obvious if it's there or not.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Yes, now you're connected just the way you should be.

The AFR not changing doesn't apply to you, that has to do with a WBO2 input IIRC. You can change that gauge by right clicking on it and selecting a value that is applicable to you.

But before you run it, there's some hardware checks that need to be done.

On your MEMCAL is there a jumper soldered between two pins on the NETRES side (under the knock filter)? This jumper sets the PCM in V8 MPFI mode and is needed to run correctly. This could explain the stalling you are experiencing. This would not be a factory jumper so it should be obvious if it's there or not.




Is this where I should be looking?







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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The jumper should be under the knock filter board, near where your index finger is in the above pictures.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
The jumper should be under the knock filter board, near where your index finger is in the above pictures.



Do I need to separate the knock filter board from the rest of the memcal in order to see it? If so how do I do that without breaking anything?
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, just look under it, from the side.
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Glenno



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
No, just look under it, from the side.



http://youtu.be/i8F36wUeVz4
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Six_Shooter



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's the jumper I'm talking about. It looks correct.

If it isn't you'll end up with a MEMCAL or CYL select error.

At this point you should be able to start tuning, using the Ostrich.
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Yeah, that's the jumper I'm talking about. It looks correct.

If it isn't you'll end up with a MEMCAL or CYL select error.

At this point you should be able to start tuning, using the Ostrich.



If I can start tuning with the Ostrach how do I go about enriching the mixture. It gets blow torch hot at the headers quickly. Which adjustments would help to achieve a cooler running engine?
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Glenno



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
Yeah, that's the jumper I'm talking about. It looks correct.

If it isn't you'll end up with a MEMCAL or CYL select error.

At this point you should be able to start tuning, using the Ostrich.



Hey six shooter how you doing?

I've been away and busy with other things. Finally back to my project.

I currently have the emulator connected and have been able to seemingly download a file to and from the emulator. I was hoping to be able to open the file I downloaded from the emulator in order to see it but can't seem to find it or open it?

Also once I start the engine and let it run for a minute or two and then shut it down it won't restart? It has to cool down completely before it will start again.


Can you recommend a bin file that may help my engine to run better initially? The engine is an older 350 Chevy with a bit of a cam, decent flowing heads, and headers. It is also a manual shift. With the current
bin the idle is very high and the mixture seems very rich.


Thanks again for your help.
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