New to Chip ECU's, some confusion

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Wed May 05, 2010 2:01 pm

K, I have the AutoProm package, G1 adapter, and 27sf512 chips to use in my 92 Corvette.

I tune all the time using HPtuners and the standalones, so some of this is confusing the hell outta me. I do not work with chip vehicles for income, just wanna do some cool stuff with my personal ride.

This setup is supercharged, and Id like to run a 2bar MAP sensor. Im finding spotty information regarding running a $58 bin and xdf to accomplish this. This is were it gets spotty... I find info saying it is possible and works great. Then I find info saying that its a very involved process and requires repinning the ecu harness connector to work.

The problem is that I cannot find any supporting documentation for either claim. Either way is fine with me, just need to know what to do. I also cannot find anything regarding what .aps file would need to be used during datalogging/emulation. Do I stick with the file used with DA2?

Ive searched here, thirdgen, speeddensity, and code59 to no avail. Maybe Im just searching the wrong terms??

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Wed May 05, 2010 2:08 pm

<<EDIT>>
I found info concerning doing this with a 93 ECU, but I dont know if they are interchangeable. (DA2 vs. DA3)

Also I found the above mentioned info on Code59, but it appears most are swapping to the actual $58 ECU (the sy/ty one) and northstar coils. I really dont want to do that if its not neccessary.

Six_Shooter · Post by **Six_Shooter** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:28 pm

What is your original ECM service number?

Post by **robertisaar** » Wed May 05, 2010 6:06 pm

the 92-93 LT1 vettes are DA2 and the 93 LT1 F-cars are DA3.

i'm not entirely sure if the stock ECM ccould run 58/59 easily. but luckily, it should use the same connectors as the 1227727(which can run 58/59). you would need to swap pins(and i could get you the diagrams if necessary), but what transmission do you have? is it a 4L60 or 4L60E? if it's an E version, then you'll need a way to control the transmission, since the 58/59 mask can't control shift solenoids and a pressure control solenoid.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Thu May 06, 2010 3:33 pm

On the moates site, I found info saying the 92 -93 Vettes used the same ECU part number, they are just listed with DA2 for 92, and DA3 for 93.

Id really prefer not to swap ECU's if I dont have to... As I do not have alot of spare time on my hands with work and being a single dad. Is it possible to just 'swap the code' concerning the VE, Spark, Baro stuff? That would make it so that I just have to swap sensors and tune.

On a side note, I did a 2bar speed density tune on a 97 Lt1 TA, swapped map sensors, deleted the MAF, made changes in the tune and was done. I did not have that great of resolution in the tables though, and it seems the stock DA2 files would limit me even more if I just plugged in the MAP sensor and re-mapped the tables accordingly. The 58/59 stuff Ive downloaded off the net seems like it would be the ticket.

As far as service number do you mean the GM part number? Im gonna pull the ECU out tomorrow and get that info, guess I'll just write down every number I see, lol.

As for the trans question... Non- 'E' I believe. Can confirm that tomorrow as well.

Ill be back on here and all the other sites tomorrow doing more searching as well. Any and all help is appreciated!

Six_Shooter · Post by **Six_Shooter** » Thu May 06, 2010 4:18 pm

Yes, the service number, I.E. "1227727", "1227749", "1227165" etc.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Thu May 06, 2010 4:52 pm

Moates.net says the Part # is 16159278 for 92-93 vettes. I'll look for a 122xxxx type number on the ECU itself tomorrow.

Thanks!!!!

Post by **robertisaar** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:03 pm

16159278 could be correct...

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:10 pm

robertisaar wrote:16159278 could be correct...

If so... 58/59 compatable? I read somewhere someone said all you need to do is load in the files and change some code from 6cyl to 8cyl for it to work. But others say it wont because the cy/ty's have coil packs??

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:49 pm

Hmmm, found that for 59 at least its not possible without changing to coil packs and a crank trigger.

Think Im gonna go ahead and try to use the spotty resolution and VE tune with a 2bar and the DA2. Wonder if there is a way to add rows and columns to the tables with Hex editing.

Even without added resolution, i think Im gonna have to do something about the baro pre-startup deal.

Post by **robertisaar** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:58 pm

you can run $59 without DIS... it's just a much cleaner and more versatile system.

Six_Shooter · Post by **Six_Shooter** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:40 pm

I don't see aschematic for that ECM, it would take some bench testing to see if that ECM could be used with $58/$59.

I would suspect that you could swap in a 1227730 or 1227749 (or thier later replacement counterparts), with a few pins swapped, if your original ECM is the underdash P4 type.

The Sy/Tys had dizzys.

$59 has been run with DIS though, in fact that's what I have on my Datsun using $59. I used a dizzy at first though, because it gave me less variables to work with, and I ran out of time to get the DIS system installed before a car show when I first swapped the car to EFI.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 4:38 am

I can get pinout schematics no problem through alldata, is that all you would need to confirm?

Is the compatability just a matter of what the ECU has pins for? If so, email me the comparable pinout and I can compare... Or I can just post up the alldata schematics here.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:09 am

Is this the info you were looking for??

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:16 am

I found that the 1227727 ECU is internally the same as the 1227730 except in a weather proof housing for the TPI vettes. It also has different connectors than the 7730.
I gather that you guys use these (1227730) ecu's because they are already speed density based and are not intended for use with a MAF?

Im looking by application to find a pinout for the 1227727 to compare to.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:32 am

Here's what I found for the 7727 ECU pinouts. They appear to be the same connectors based on the illustrations. Hopefully we'll find that the 58 stuff will work for my existing ECU. Or worst case scenario, that I can swap to this ECU and get her going.

Post by **robertisaar** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:21 am

they are the same connector, i can guarantee that...

and there was a MAF mask on the 7727s but it was kinda flaky from the factory so GM dumped the MAF on the 88 W-bodies and made them speed-density.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:39 am

So, knowing that the ECU's are electrically identical (7730 and 7727) just different connectors. How do we determine what pins are needed to confirm or deny compatability to the 58 stuff?

Post by **robertisaar** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:00 am

58 was originally run on a 1227749, which is roughly a 1227730 with an extra injector driver and missing one quad driver...

it's been done a LOT of times before...

i would use the 7727 though since it has it's weathproofing advantages over the 7730. i refuse to use ECMs that aren't meant for underhood use for that reason.

since it looks like you have alldata access, compare a 92 Typhoon ECM diagram and the diagram for your corvette, you'll see what is different quickly. i made a cross-reference for it, but it is based on a W-body application originally using a 7727 or 16149396 originally... not sure how much you could use of it.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:26 am

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DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:30 am

robertisaar wrote: since it looks like you have alldata access, compare a 92 Typhoon ECM diagram and the diagram for your corvette, you'll see what is different quickly. i made a cross-reference for it, but it is based on a W-body application originally using a 7727 or 16149396 originally... not sure how much you could use of it.

Ill be doing that now. I can get quad driver info off of alldata as well, so I'll also compare that stuff and see what I find.

So even if the physical circuitry is different (lacking or adding drivers, different connectors)... The code chage basically changes how everything is operated. Assuming I have enough drivers in the current stock ECM, I 'should' be able to just make sure the inputs/outputs are assigned to the correct wires and give 58 a shot correct?

Post by **robertisaar** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:34 am

more or less... i'm not sure of how many other modules are in a 92 LT1 vette though, and how they will react to a different mask runnnig things...

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:53 am

k, Im not finding the quad driver diagrams for the Typhoon like I was for the Vette on Alldata.

As for the 58 mask on this ECU Im all for giving it a shot, as long as doing so wont toast it, lol. But I imagine that as long as we assign the correct wiring to the correct ouputs, we will be ok.

I see that the Typhoon dist provides 4 pulses per distributor rotation (or 1 engine cycle.. based on a diagram anyway). The opti I believe will provide 8 pulses per cycle or 4 per crank rotation. Is it down to code editing to make this compatable with the 58 mask?

Six_Shooter · Post by **Six_Shooter** » Mon May 10, 2010 9:24 am

I don't have much time, I'm at work and should be doing so, lol.

I just wanted to say this...

$58 and $59 has been used with '7727 and possibly with your 1619____ ECM part number, I'll have to see what the service number is that Lucky used in his Land Rover on his Toyota engine, with $59.

I'm wondering though, I know some 'Vettes had an extra packet in thier ALDL link, to commuicate with other mdules in the vehicle, HUD maybe? I haven't really looked into it, since I don't own a 'Vette, but I have seen something mentioned a few times.

DanielsEFI · Post by **DanielsEFI** » Tue May 11, 2010 6:41 am

Six_Shooter wrote:...$58 and $59 has been used with '7727 and possibly with your 1619____ ECM part number, I'll have to see what the service number is that Lucky used in his Land Rover on his Toyota engine, with $59.

I'm at the point now, were I just need to be pointed in the direction of how to determine what pins to swap on the ECU if any. All the other info available for using the $58 or $59 mask involves using 7730 ECU which Im guessing has similar internal electronics since the connectors for the sy/ty ECU are also similar.

So for the folks who have used this mask on ECU's other than the 730/727/749 ECU's how do you confirm what the new mask/bin is doing with the ECU connector pins?

Can I safely put a 58 mask/bin into this ECU, with the changes related to engine configuration, then just confirm that my sensors and such are all reading correctly with a datalog?