Data Acquisition Fails if Engine is Running

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olddog
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Data Acquisition Fails if Engine is Running

Post by olddog »

This is a 1993 Ford EEC 4 with a quarter horse chip and using TunerPro RT Running on Vista.

I downloaded the Bin to the QH. It verified good. Emulation turned on. Turned the key on and started the data acquisition (DA), with the dashboard open. I can move the throttle and see voltage change. I can read battery voltage, etc. Everything appears to work fine. As soon as I start the engine, the DA goes into error and the dashboard freezes. Have to turn engine off, unplug USB, replug USB, to get in working again. A couple times TunerPro stopped responding and would not shut down until the USB was unplugged.

Next I tried leaving emulation and data acquisition off until after the engine was started. Then I turned on only data acquisition. It works for about 5-10 seconds, and then get the error. So it is a little better this way.

I downloaded from Moates a USB Serial driver CDM20824_Setup from an area that said it was there newest driver. Installed it and set the latency to 1ms as instructed. It worked better but still got the communication error.

Then I found another area on Moates site that specifically stated the driver was proven to work on Vista. It is CDM_Setup Auto-Installer. I installed it and set the latency to 1ms. It worked for 35-45 seconds before the communication error.

This is an AC Shelby Cobra replica. The firewall is fiberglass ~1/4" - no metal. The ECU is inside the passenger compartment mounted above the passengers feet. The USB cable off the QH is only about 6" from the rear cylinder spark plug. It has high quality new Taylor plug wires. Tonight I unbolted the ECU and set it on the drivers side seat, which got the USB Serial cable a good 3.5 feet from the nearest spark plug wire. No improvement at all.

I moved the ferrite beads to the opposite ends of the cable. No improvement.

I tried playing around with the advanced driver setting by reducing the number of bites it transfers. No improvement. Put it back

I'm about out of ideas and need help!
olddog
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Post by olddog »

I put the QH on my other ECU. It is original Ford A9L. It was in the car and had been operating perfectly fine for over a year. I pulled it out a couple weeks ago and started with my spare re-maned A9L.

It also has the communication error when the DA fails. Only it now it has an intermittent problem. When the key is turned on, the fuel pump runs, like normal, but never shuts off.

HELP!
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Mangus
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Post by Mangus »

QH was known to work previously? I'd reach out to Moates support. Communication failing when engine runs typically points to bad grounds, bad USB (or other) cable, or electrical noise from other sources. Given that you say your hardware previously worked fine, it could be a result of a short while swapping or other hardware failure as well.
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olddog
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 4:04 pm

Post by olddog »

Thank you so much for replying so quickly with a holiday weekend.
Mangus wrote:Communication failing when engine runs typically points to bad grounds, bad USB (or other) cable, or electrical noise from other sources.
I just metered my wire harness with the ECU unplugged. Ohm meter connected to battery ground terminal. Pin 20, 40, & 60 all read 0.2 ohms, and connecting meter leads together also reads 0.2 ohms. Both ECU meter 0.2 ohm from case to pin 20. Wire to pin 60 is grounded to intake manifold bolt. Harness is inside a corrugated plastic loom and I do not know where pin 20 & 40 are grounded (I suspect the frame). Battery grounds to frame and to a bell housing bolt next to starter. Another ground goes from frame to engine block.

Should all the ECU grounds go directly to the battery terminal?
Mangus wrote:QH was known to work previously?
I just purchased it a couple weeks ago, and this is my first attempt to use it, so it is unknown. I believe they are checked before shipping, and it was packaged well, but you never know about shipping.
Mangus wrote:I'd reach out to Moates support.
I contacted Moates the same night I emailed you. They replied today, and suspect electrical noise (plugs or wires). They offered "You can also order the Optoisolator cable from our web store to further insulate the QH from electrical issues." I would hate to buy this if that is not my problem, but gladly would if it solves the problem. Any experience with how much of an improvement this makes?

Plugs are OEM and wires are same as OEM only better insulation. Ignition was supplied by MassFlow (now ProM Racing) with the EFI system. I do not suspect any of these parts. Am I wrong?

There is a short circuit protection module KVR202B with wires going to the alternator mounted just above the ECU. Its case is grounded. Also the starter relay is near. However I removed the ECU and set in on the passenger seat, and it was not better. But will these be an issue when the ECU is mounted normally?
Mangus wrote:Given that you say your hardware previously worked fine, it could be a result of a short while swapping or other hardware failure as well.
Key was off each time the ECU harness was connected/disconnected. ECUs were on a bench when QH and USB was connected to QH. Key has always been off when USB was plugged or unplugged from LapTop.
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Mangus
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Post by Mangus »

Is it possible for you to try it on a buddy's (hopefully-as-close-to-stock-as-possible) vehicle first to ensure that the hardware operates correctly under normal circumstances? That would go a long way in determining if this is a hardware issue, or something unique to your setup. That might be the way to go.

Dave at Moates.net (the support guy you're working with) has a ton of first-hand experience with the QH and Ford tuning, so I will always defer to him.

If it comes to it and you purchase the optical isolator and it doesn't work out for you, they'll happily accept your return. They work hard to make sure you have only what you need and want.
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olddog
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Post by olddog »

I cannot think of buddy's car I could use, but that would be a great test. I have a 2001 Grand Marqui, but I don't think there are bins and definition files out there for it. Didn't look hard; maybe I'm wrong about that.

Yes you are correct, I traded a couple Emails now with Dave. He asked if we can do remote connection to my laptop. I'm going to confirm a time with him and take vacation Friday, if that day works. I'm sure he can help me get this resolved.

Thanks again for your help.

I haven't got to use all the functionality of TunerPro yet, but what I have used I am very impressed with. I cannot wait to start moving past this bump in the road.
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