Multi Throttle Body for BMW M20
Moderators: robertisaar, dex
Multi Throttle Body for BMW M20
Finished building an E30 M20 engine.
here are the specs:
CatCams 316 degree camshaft
Ross Racing pistons 86mm
H-Beam Conrods
ACL Race Bearings
light weight valves ( can reach 9000 RPM )
3.0L stroker cranckshaft
BMW Motorsport Headers
Multi throttle body ( retrofit from M3 )
280cc Bosch injectors
I have tried this combination before with Weber carburetors set, but now i am looking to make it run using DME 402 ( for multi-coil and Alpha-N ).
so i installed a E36 M50 harness and DME, and cam sensor, so the engine is now ready to start, but still have to tune for Alpha-N.
any help is appreciated.
here are the specs:
CatCams 316 degree camshaft
Ross Racing pistons 86mm
H-Beam Conrods
ACL Race Bearings
light weight valves ( can reach 9000 RPM )
3.0L stroker cranckshaft
BMW Motorsport Headers
Multi throttle body ( retrofit from M3 )
280cc Bosch injectors
I have tried this combination before with Weber carburetors set, but now i am looking to make it run using DME 402 ( for multi-coil and Alpha-N ).
so i installed a E36 M50 harness and DME, and cam sensor, so the engine is now ready to start, but still have to tune for Alpha-N.
any help is appreciated.
what i am thinking of is wiring the TPS signal to the AMF signal ( with MAF removed ) so the ECU will take the TPS signal as Load ( this is called alpha-N )
then change the MAF table to get the fuel i need.
It will be hard to tune first time but its worth it, because no way you can get results with such cams using Airbox with MAF.
then change the MAF table to get the fuel i need.
It will be hard to tune first time but its worth it, because no way you can get results with such cams using Airbox with MAF.
I was thinking of doing something similar aboutton with tricking the ECU into think Throttle % is Load. I would like to build a ITB high revving NA m50.aboutton wrote:what i am thinking of is wiring the TPS signal to the AMF signal ( with MAF removed ) so the ECU will take the TPS signal as Load ( this is called alpha-N )
then change the MAF table to get the fuel i need.
It will be hard to tune first time but its worth it, because no way you can get results with such cams using Airbox with MAF.
Plan would be:
Non-vanos head Ported and Polished w/ hot cams
86mm bore pistons 11:1
75mm crank.
ITB's
Do you think it is possible to rev the m52 84mm crank to 8-8.2K rpm?
The only thing I hate about Alpha-N is WOT at 2000rpm will be alot different airflow than at 6000rpm you know. You will always be rich at everywhere but peak airflow...
i would have kept the motronic 1.3 system on the engine.. i have always wanted to try an ITB setup and connect the electronics of the stock AFM to the linkages of the ITB's so that instead of a load signal in part throttle maps of airflow thru the AFM you end up with load taken from the position of the ITB's instead.
id maybe also disconnect the WOT side of the M20 TPS sensor so that the ECU never goes into WOT maps and you simply tune the highest load end of part throttle for WOT. it would end up being kind of like alpha-n but with alot of resolution in maps based on the position of the ITB's.
id maybe also disconnect the WOT side of the M20 TPS sensor so that the ECU never goes into WOT maps and you simply tune the highest load end of part throttle for WOT. it would end up being kind of like alpha-n but with alot of resolution in maps based on the position of the ITB's.
EthosMotorsports
Regarding alpha-n
Hi!
I was thinking of doing this but chickened out because of the rarity of my particular car... The car has ITB's and are running the motronic 1.0 including maf.
The installation is pretty straight forward I think. Haven't tried any of this so please use this info only as a guideline...
First, the TPS:
Get a suitable tps, for instance bosch p/n 0280120402, 0280120406. These looks the same, could be the rotation of the tps that differ, i don't know for sure.
Then there is the 0280120418. This has the OEM e30 3 pin connectors and I am told this is a direct swap for the on/off switch type tps side. Think this is the best tps to use.
The thing these tps's have in common is that they have both a variable and a switched side.
I have heard though that you should not connect the WOT side of the switched tps as this may difficult the tuning of the map. My own conclusion is that to make the car driveable you need to connect the switched side or else it would be difficult to get any readings... After the map is finished it could be ok to just "disconnect" the WOT side.
Second, the maf and the air temp sensor:
To make this work you need to trick the ecu to think the afm is still there.
Just connect the wires as per description below and don't forget the air temp sensor. Don't know if it is possible to use other sensors? Like the Bosch 0280130039. But for simplicity just remove the old one and put it as close to the original filterbox as possible.
As for the input voltage to the afm from the DME I have read that the motronic 1.1 and later has the required 5v signal but the motronic 1.0 has a 12v supply. Don't know this for sure though. Just do some measurements yourself.
Then I guess you need some sort of wideband sensor to get any readings?
I will enclose a drawing of how to connect the maf signals to the TPS.
The drawing is based on the 402 tps but you get the idea...
http://www.ladda-upp.se/bilder/ojmjddvwajjqck/
Old tps pinout: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106881
Map away!
As I said use this as a guideline and please correct me if I am wrong...
Finally I want to say thank's to GStuning for giving me some advice how to make the tps/afm drawing.
Kind regards
Daniel
I was thinking of doing this but chickened out because of the rarity of my particular car... The car has ITB's and are running the motronic 1.0 including maf.
The installation is pretty straight forward I think. Haven't tried any of this so please use this info only as a guideline...
First, the TPS:
Get a suitable tps, for instance bosch p/n 0280120402, 0280120406. These looks the same, could be the rotation of the tps that differ, i don't know for sure.
Then there is the 0280120418. This has the OEM e30 3 pin connectors and I am told this is a direct swap for the on/off switch type tps side. Think this is the best tps to use.
The thing these tps's have in common is that they have both a variable and a switched side.
I have heard though that you should not connect the WOT side of the switched tps as this may difficult the tuning of the map. My own conclusion is that to make the car driveable you need to connect the switched side or else it would be difficult to get any readings... After the map is finished it could be ok to just "disconnect" the WOT side.
Second, the maf and the air temp sensor:
To make this work you need to trick the ecu to think the afm is still there.
Just connect the wires as per description below and don't forget the air temp sensor. Don't know if it is possible to use other sensors? Like the Bosch 0280130039. But for simplicity just remove the old one and put it as close to the original filterbox as possible.
As for the input voltage to the afm from the DME I have read that the motronic 1.1 and later has the required 5v signal but the motronic 1.0 has a 12v supply. Don't know this for sure though. Just do some measurements yourself.
Then I guess you need some sort of wideband sensor to get any readings?
I will enclose a drawing of how to connect the maf signals to the TPS.
The drawing is based on the 402 tps but you get the idea...
http://www.ladda-upp.se/bilder/ojmjddvwajjqck/
Old tps pinout: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106881
Map away!
As I said use this as a guideline and please correct me if I am wrong...
Finally I want to say thank's to GStuning for giving me some advice how to make the tps/afm drawing.
Kind regards
Daniel
Re: Regarding alpha-n
hi, how can i do this on 325i engine? cdprs wrote:Hi!
I was thinking of doing this but chickened out because of the rarity of my particular car... The car has ITB's and are running the motronic 1.0 including maf.
The installation is pretty straight forward I think. Haven't tried any of this so please use this info only as a guideline...
First, the TPS:
Get a suitable tps, for instance bosch p/n 0280120402, 0280120406. These looks the same, could be the rotation of the tps that differ, i don't know for sure.
Then there is the 0280120418. This has the OEM e30 3 pin connectors and I am told this is a direct swap for the on/off switch type tps side. Think this is the best tps to use.
The thing these tps's have in common is that they have both a variable and a switched side.
I have heard though that you should not connect the WOT side of the switched tps as this may difficult the tuning of the map. My own conclusion is that to make the car driveable you need to connect the switched side or else it would be difficult to get any readings... After the map is finished it could be ok to just "disconnect" the WOT side.
Second, the maf and the air temp sensor:
To make this work you need to trick the ecu to think the afm is still there.
Just connect the wires as per description below and don't forget the air temp sensor. Don't know if it is possible to use other sensors? Like the Bosch 0280130039. But for simplicity just remove the old one and put it as close to the original filterbox as possible.
As for the input voltage to the afm from the DME I have read that the motronic 1.1 and later has the required 5v signal but the motronic 1.0 has a 12v supply. Don't know this for sure though. Just do some measurements yourself.
Then I guess you need some sort of wideband sensor to get any readings?
I will enclose a drawing of how to connect the maf signals to the TPS.
The drawing is based on the 402 tps but you get the idea...
http://www.ladda-upp.se/bilder/ojmjddvwajjqck/
Old tps pinout: http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106881
Map away!
As I said use this as a guideline and please correct me if I am wrong...
Finally I want to say thank's to GStuning for giving me some advice how to make the tps/afm drawing.
Kind regards
Daniel